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Have you considered tapping into the vast literature of tests done by
psychologists? I'm not sure what levels of access are available, but there
must be a huge potential there for comparing results obtained with the
birth data of participants?
Shelley M Martin
mailto:mmmmartin64@hotmail.com
21Mar2001
With the AstroDatabank software, can you do something like look for
celebrities who have Mercury opposite Pluto making a T-square to Saturn
which is within 10 degrees of the Ascendant?
Anon.
19Feb2001
being a triple water sing, sun moon in scorpio, cancer rising i have great
difficulty in dealing with ANYONE who has no water in their charts. its
like they don't even have hearts. they seem to me like sociopaths who use
and abuse people for their own gain and then go, "what, what did i
do?"
Bob Log 3
13Feb2001
Dear Mark!!!
Muy interesantes tus reflexiones, y por ello te FELICITO, Sorry Don't
Speack English, but I understand. Creo como espresas que muchas veces las
tecnicas confunden y es necesario el analisis criterioso por ejemplo en
relacion al estudio sobre el alcoholismo que haces referencia, viene
perfectamente el momento para tratar el desafio de encontrar la hora de
nacimiento de Jeff Wigand, ya que la Carta que considero correcta coloca
todos los indicadores al que te refieres en el articulo,con lo cual estoy
seguro en haber encontrado la Hora de Nacimiento de Jeff, y esto se
confirma en : Neptuno angular ( se encuentra en la Casa X), Neptuno en
aspecto con los Luminares ( esta en Quincuncio con la Luna y en cuadratura
con el Sol ) Saturno esta casi angular se puede aceptar que esta
involucrado con la Cuspide de Casa VII, Ademas de aspectos con Mercurio y
Venus en cuadratura, con Marte en sextil, con Saturno y Urano en Trino,
con Pluton en sextil, siendo Jupiter el unico planeta sin aspecto a
Neptuno, pero si su dispositor la Luna!!!
Sin duda Neptuno es el hilo conductor de este mediatico personaje.
Ademas Neptuno tambien simboliza la industria del Tabaco, y de las
sustancias quimicas y toxicas, pero ademas EL FRAUDE y Jeff Wigand,
defraudo, engaño, violó secretos profesionales,abusó de la confianza de
sus superiores ( que al estar Neptuno en Casa X, son tan corruptos como
Wigand ).
Para mi Wigand es un corrupto, y trabajo en una Industria Corrupta como
es la del Tabaco.
Porque tuvo tanta repercucion su caso y su tema, porque Wigand tiene a
Neptuno en Casa X, y esto no solo lo hace mediatico sino que lo convierte
en un actor, que se valio de su condicion, de VICTIMA ( Neptuno ) fue el
chivo expiatorio, el buey corneta, Wigand es el arquetipo en sí de
Neptuno, un estafador carismatico, lider de la lucha por el bienestar y la
salud, pero un "lider de humo", porque engaño, estafó y robó
y sigue robando con su mejor profesion que descubrio, el Bluff, la ilusion
y la fantasia.
Wigand tarde o temprano estará embuelto en otro ESCANDALO, porque
recordemos tiene Neptuno en Casa X y en cuadratura con el regente del MC.
Wigand estará nuevamente desmotrando que es un FRAUDE!!!
Afectuosamente!!!
Mario Raskovsky
ARGENTINA
mailto:siderum@yahoo.com
I am really glad that people are attempting multi-factor statistical
analysis of large numbers of charts. Until we individually and
collectively reach enlightenment, this seems to me to the most viable way
for us to accept individual and collective responsibility for using
astrology to give advice.
However, even with the necessity for statistical analysis and shared,
massive databases, I believe that we are well advised to accept training
in a traditional system of astrology guided by an experienced teacher.
I think experienced teachers may very well develop intuition that
enables them to analyze a chart accurately and make accurate
recommendations/remediations. And I believe that this intuition may lead
them to conclusions that depart from what statistics would predict.
In sum, let's all join the efforts to share our data, to use the data
that's available--both statistical and traditional.
Steve Sufian
mailto:veda108@yahoo.com
17Sep2000
If you're going to give Saturn a -2 in accessing a water temperament, than
will you give the moon a +2? I'm curious to know how you'd weigh someone
with a moon/saturn conjunction on the ascendant, with respect to your
study.
mailto:sandstone8@yahoo.com
Mark, Bravo!
I think you have started what I hope will be a revolution in which each
and every astrologer contributes positively to the "corpus of
astrological knowledge". Astrodatabank should serve as an invaluable encyclopedia
for all astrologers.
Submitted by:
Sesh Venugopal
mailto:sesh_v@yahoo.com
Thank God there's someone out there emphasizing this kind of research.
I was just about to give up astrology feeling disillusioned (once again)
by all the different opinions and theories offered by the various schools
and sects that express themselves on the AstroDatabank e-mails alone. How
is anyone supposed to make any sense of it or believe astrology is a
reputable profession (pastime?) when there really doesn't seem to be much
of an agreement on any of the charts. As always, astrology wins and I
press on with my studies, trusting that the 'truth is out there' and one
day we'll have it more systematically codified. Thanks again for your
input, Mark!
Anya Tikka McMonagle
mailto:anyamac@earthlink.net
I love your site. I've learned more here than any other site and you're
always on target with exactly the questions that have been entering my
mind. I believe my correct number for all water would be 6.5 and can
definitely relate to what's been said re: this subject Is this number
enough to be considered an excess?
Birth info: 3/3/54, 1:20 AM EST Meriden, Ct.
LINDA
mailto:lafrano@snet.net
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step." I
am at Mile Marker 200; a conjecture. Your speech gives pause to the
enduring analysis and subliminal protocols enlightening our path as we
continue learning and researching scientific data. Merci'
Anon.
The role of signs and houses becomes dubious when we compare the natal
charts of people who have done something similar.
The other day I bought a book called _Zodiac of Death_. Co-written by a
crime writer and an astrologer, it looks at the crimes and the natal
charts of fifty murderers, including several mass murderers and serial
killers (including Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz, John Wayne Gacy, and
Charles Manson).
The astrological commentary is particularly bad. The delineations are
classic cases of "cookbook" astrology. Not only did the author
not realize that the planets didn't tend to appear in any one sign or
house or any combination thereof, she totally missed the fact that nearly
every chart had a Mars-Neptune aspect. Also, the aspects were both major
and minor (especially the semisquare and the semi-octile), and weren't
necessarily partile (a few had biquintiles, if you gave them orbs of four
to five degrees).
The astrologer mentioned the Mars-Neptune aspect in only four
delineations.
Of course, not everyone with a Mars-Neptune aspect is going to turn
into a serial killer. But this does warrant further investigation.
Kevin Bold (Founder, Sidereal_Astrology@egroups.com)
mailto:Aumgn93@aol.com
I really enjoyed the article on research. Are you familiar with a
statistical technique called "discriminant analysis"?
Anon.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on your thoughtful article. I
agree that it is an exciting time for astrology, though not only due to
the availability of such truly advanced tools as the AstroDatabank. The
potential for uncovering the nature of our ability to make meaning out of
symbols and complex relationships like those represented by archetypal
patterns has never been greater. I wonder if the expansion of astrological
research beyond single factor analyses doesn't also reflect the
development of "post-structural" inquiry in philosophy,
linguistics, and psychoanalysis. As we come to understand more fully the
role of the nature of our questions will we be able to generate data that
describes not only the tendencies indicated by the chart but the limits of
our own perception? I have enjoyed your weekly mailings of astro
newsmakers and hope to be able to work with the AstroDatabank myself one
day. Do you have any plans of making it available on a Mac platform, or
can you recommend software or databases that would allow similar research
on a Mac?
Thank you,
Shawn Casey
mailto:scasey6000@aol.com
Excellent speech – it's really refreshing to see this kind of article
about Astrology. I've done my own type of Astrological Research on a
subject which I'd like to know if you've had any experience with:
correlating FACES by Sun/Asc (the physiognomy of Astrology). Although my
research is purely qualitative and largely subjective, there does seem to
be a real facial similarity between people with the same Sun/Asc.
combination, which transcends age, sex, or race. (The same type of
similarity that one often sees in the face of a child while looking at the
faces of his/her parents in attempting to see which parent the child more
closely resembles). I would love to know what other studies may have been
done along these lines. I suppose that planets in the first house would
also have to be taken into account – especially if they were conjunct
the Ascendant itself. I have found one other Astrologer on the Web,
recently, who seems to share my interest in this aspect of Astrology, and
who posts people's photographs on his website in 3 categories: by Sun, by
Sun/Asc. and by Sun/Asc./Moon (after having the subjects send in their
birth data). If anyone is interested, please e-mail me.
mailto:metapsychologist@aol.com
Thank you for your stimulating address. Concerning hemisphere emphasis:
Would it not appear plausible to hypothesize that the effect of more
planets above the horizon with public figures should be more evident with
such people coming from a 'humble' background than regarding people with
one or both parents having established a network in society. After all,
these people would have gone the way completely on their own, not aided by
their parents' achievements or connections.
Jan Westerveld
mailto:jg.westerveld@hccnet.nl
Dear Mark.
One aspect of the approach you describe here is very similar to
software ('Praxis') I developed nearly ten years ago, but never released.
Much as you described in your concept, it broke with single-factor
interpretation, but by using a two-dimensional matrix. All the
astrological factors (that I implemented in Praxis) lie on one dimension,
psychological factors on the other. Weights (from -1 to +1) then relate
each psychological factor to one or (usually) more astrological factors;
and in turn each astrological factor relates to one or more psychological
factors. To give an example, 'drive' might be positively related at say
+.5 to the Locomotive; +.5 to the TSquare; -.4 to an Elevated Neptune, and
so on.
I built this software to represent different astrological 'systems'
(shown by different patterns of weights). The problem of course was that
although this provided a basis for duplicating astrological synthesis (the
astrologer's mind, as you put it) in a consistent and testable way, and so
testing between the systems, I became unhappy about the fact I hadn't
really built a *research* tool. After all, astrology doesn't really
contain a good foundation of theory, and by duplicating one or another
astrological 'belief-system' as it were, I would merely be firing shots in
the dark! Science gets around this by starting from observation, and then
as quickly as possible formulating theory (theory-building) from which to
*guide* further observation so that we can more quickly find the right
places to look (theory-testing).
Since that time I have acquired qualifications in research and
psychometrics. It is obvious that what you are doing is a huge step in the
right direction. In particular, with 'astro-signatures', you have moved
toward the development of "scales" in psychological parlance.
These do exactly what you have done with AstroSignatures, and what I did
with Praxis, except that psychologists have been developing psychological
tests (groups of scales) for a large part of a century; and the techniques
for developing and - in particular - validating these scales are well
known and well advanced.
I am keen to see you incorporate scale-development methods into
Astrodatabank, especially because of the exceptional data resource
provided by Lois's collection. But I am also keen to address the problem
of "criterion reliability". I understand that you have focussed
on objective personal attributes as much as possible (e.g. vocation, event
histories, medical conditions etc); but as far as the 'psychological'
attributes of the person are concerned, these are a matter of subjective
judgment, especially when only biographical source material is available.
A well established principle of psychometrics is that the relationships
sought cannot exceed the quality (reliability and validity) of the factors
within the relationship. For example, if we don't measure
"extroversion" consistently and using the same definition
>from one astrologer to another, then *no matter how strongly
extroversion may be shown with astrological factors*, we will only find
weak relationships, or no relationships at all!
In astrology, we are generally able to measure the *astrological*
factors with great accuracy: that we have not enforced accuracy
(consistency) in our measurement of *personal* factors, and have neglected
the subjective influence of the astrologer-observer in any case, is a
further major part in my opinion of our inability to arrive at clear,
testable knowledge. As you so rightly point out, astrological technique
has proliferated without limit because of our inability to test
adequately.
Certainly there are well-established biographical research methods
(e.g., triangulation; and inter-rater reliability checks) to improve the
reliability of the qualitative criterion information on which astrological
research must usually depend. But I see no reason why we should not also
use the very best available from scientifically validated psychological
tests. (This will of course require a different approach in our future
collection of data). We will then have good, reliable criterion
information which is also *quantitative*: not just that Ms. X is
"eccentric" and "extrovert", but *how* eccentric and
*how* extrovert she is, compared to a known reference population. At any
rate, this is the direction my thought has taken since I saw parallels
between 'psychometric scales' and what I am pleased to call, in my own
work, 'astrometric scales'.
Finally, I congratulate you on what you have done so far, and the
vision outlined in your speech. There is now reason for great hope for the
future of astrology.
André Donnell
mailto:iandre@ihug.co.nz
Hello, folks.
As you may recall, I've suspected for quite some time that pop &
rock musicians have Venus-Uranus aspects more often than other people.
Turns out it's WAY more often -- 62%, as opposed to 42% for the general
population. Odds of this being a coincidence are less than 5%.
Can't thank you enough for the tools to make this discovery.
Later, Kevin
Kevin Bold (Founder, Sidereal_Astrology-subscribe@egroups.com)
http://hometown.aol.com/aumgn93/)
mailto:Aumgn93@aol.com
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